Harry Forrester Williams is proof that nice guys don’t come second. An owner, breeder, trainer and successful businessman, Harry and wife Rita have a significant back catalogue of major event winners going back over decades. But there is so much more to Harry than his track record. Shrewd, articulate and always well informed, Harry’s views are invariably succinct and interesting. This is what he had to say.
Harry you’ve spent a lifetime in the sport and have enjoyed huge success, how did you get involved in the game ?
I was about 15 years old when I first got involved in the sport. I’d walk the 3 or 4 miles to South Shields track from where I went to school at Jarrow with a friend. I got the bug straight away, like a lot of people really, I was fascinated by the greyhounds and quickly became a regular at the track. I soon ventured a little further afield and started visiting Brough Park (Newcastle). It was here that I first got involved in actually owning greyhounds, the first of which were with Normal Oliver. Norman was a great trainer, he won the Scottish Derby with a dog named Hi Ho Silver in 1967, in those days the Derby was run at Carntyne stadium in Glasgow. I had a dream to emulate that success one day.
Harry you’ve been known to credit a lot of your knowledge gained on the sport to Irish Derby winning trainer Matt Travers ?
Matt was a great man who sadly passed away back in 2012. I purchased a greyhound from Matt named Nippy Colleen in the mid 1970s. My relationship grew from their really, we spoke regularly on the telephone and Matt invited me over to his set up regularly, I learnt a lot from him he was a great man with a dog and it was a privilege to spend the week leading up to the 1979 Irish Derby final with him. Matt had Penny County competing in the final, as a bitch in against five dogs and being drawn in trap 6 she looked up against it. Matt was supremely confident all week though and the race went exactly as Matt said it would all week. Breaking well from her wide draw she got across them at the bend exactly as Matt said she would. Over the years I’ve tried to take as much as possible from anybody of knowledge that I’ve come across, taking bits and pieces from here and there and combining it all to the best of my ability. I’d have to put more than most down to Matt though.
You’ve bred some wonderful greyhounds over the years who have gone on to win countless competitions. Where did your involvement in breeding begin ?
I owe a lot to a bitch named Soda Pop. She was owned by some business friends of mine, a hugely pacey girl who broke numerous track records when with her trainer Adam Jackson. I managed to agree a deal to purchase her at the end of her career and she went on to produce numerous top class pups. Her first litter were to the sire Lindas Champion and produced many top class pups but the best of them and most well known would be Pond Hurricane who went on to win the All England Cup for me at Brough Park and also the Anglo – Irish race at Wimbledon amongst many others. He really was a terrific greyhound, one of the fastest I’ve ever put a lead on. In this part of the world the All England Cup is an extremely prestigious event, widely known as the North East Derby and to anybody from this area it’s the event we all want to win after the English Derby of course.
Harry you mention that Pond Hurricane was ‘one of the fastest’ dogs that you ever trained. Would it be fair to say that New Level would be up there with him ?
1992 Eclipse Final – Eventual winner New Level (T6) on the outside of early leader Home Truths (T4) – pic Steve Nash 31.10.92
What an amazing greyhound he was. New Level won the Scottish Derby for us up at Shawfield in 1993. A long time friend of mine David Johnston had asked me to find him a decent dog to train for him. Now I mentioned Soda Pop earlier on, my good friend in Ireland Matt Travers was a big fan of Soda Pop and asked me could he purchase one of her daughters to use for breeding. The girl he bought was named Well Plucked. Maybe the whole chain of events was fate but she went on to become a wonderful brood for Matt and produced New Level. I did a deal on David’s behalf for him and when he won the Scottish Derby at Shawfield in 1993 it was the realisation of a dream I’d held for many years. He’d shown his potential when setting a new track record over Newcastle’s 460m trip in 1992 and duly went on to win the All England Cup later that year. He won The Eclipse at Nottingham in 1993 and was a finalist in the Champion Stakes over in Ireland that year too. A truly fantastic greyhound, it’s difficult to say he didn’t stand alone as my best ever but though he won more than Pond Hurricane overall I’d still find them difficult to separate, I’d hold them in equal esteem really. David Johnston passed away a few months back, he’ll be sadly missed.
A youthful Harry with Pond Pavarotti. The dog was beaten a short head by Pineapple Magic in the Peterborough Derby Final pic Steve Nash 27.7.92
I’ve been extremely lucky to have handled as many good dogs as I have done though, ability wise Blue Artisan would be right up there but he was a very unlucky dog in many ways. He won one of the best Gymcrack Finals in history in 2010, in fact not just winning but winning comfortably by 4 lengths. Runner up in that final was Blonde Snapper who went on to win the Classic at Sunderland as well as the Golden Sprint in 2011 and added the Derby final to his cv in 2012. The greyhound who finished in last place in that Gymcrack final was Droopys Bradley, he went on to win the St Leger at Wimbledon later that year and set a new track record in his semi final there. It really was a top class final, he went on to win a top class Racing Post Juvenile at Wimbledon in 2011 but too often he found one to beat him in major finals. Even back in 2010 we were heading to Nottingham with him for the Select Stakes, we’d set off in plenty of time but got stuck in traffic due to a major accident on the A1 near Wetherby. Nottingham couldn’t have been more helpful but in the end time went against us and we had to declare him a non runner. These things happen and at least we were all safe but it was just one of these bits of bad luck that seemed to stop him really achieving what he may have.
Bitch wise Zigzag Kit was a sensational greyhound who arguably got better and better with age. Kit won the Northumberland Plate at Newcastle in 2004 and later that year won the Pat McCombe Memorial Invitation at Belle Vue. The next year she went on to win the Yorkshire Oaks Final at Sheffield and shortly after set new track record figures in heat and semi final of the Cock O’ The North at Belle Vue. She looked a good thing for the final but was beaten at short odds. Kit won the National Oaks Final at Nottingham that year too as well as reaching the Laurels final back at Belle Vue. She really was a high class bitch but didn’t ever really pass that onto any of her offspring which was a shame. Pond Shakira was a great bitch too, she won the National Oaks Final for us back at Nottingham in 2007 so it was good to retain that trophy, particularly so since her dam line goes back to Soda Pop who started it all off for us. Shakira went on to produce some real nice pups herself, Pond Shefelia who won the British Bred Derby at Newcastle in 2011, the Angel Of The North final the same year and in 2012 she reached the final of the Grand Prix at Sunderland. It was good to see her offspring continuing the good form of the line, we’re huge supporters of the British breeding scene so particularly enjoy any success we have in those events. Pond Natalya won the British Bred Oaks final for us at Doncaster in 2019. A daughter of Pond Tanzanite who though not enjoying a fabulous open race career was a more than decent A1 bitch herself and a daughter of Shakira, we mated her to Blue Artisan so it really was a success brought about by our own dogs. There’s nothing beats the feeling when you know that you’ve put it all in yourself, from the breeding to the rearing to the training and to see your pups go on to achieve great things, it really is a superb feeling.
BOHERBRADDA MAC with Rita Williams Sunderland 15 July 2010 Pic STEVE NASH
Mags Gamble, another super greyhound for us and won the All England Cup in 2012. I’m not sure he ever really got the credit he deserved, he was a supremely talented dog but for one reason or another I’m not sure he quite caught hold of the attention of the press like other dogs did. Tudor Prince finished runner up in that 2012 All England Cup Final and he was another good dog for us. As well as finishing runner up in that final Prince ran up in the Eclipse, the Steel City Cup, finished third in the Laurels and reached the final of the Scottish Derby. I suppose he could go down as a little bit of an unlucky dog in that respect too.
We were lucky to win a couple of Sprinter Of The Year awards with Laser Beam in 2005 and Boherbradda Mac in 2008. It’s always good to see your dog’s gaining due recognition for their talents.
Then we go onto Allowdale Bruno, now Bruno might not have been the best dog in the world but he was the best runner of a bend I’ve ever seen in my time in the sport. He’d cut across and run a turn at frightening speed. He really was something else. He was sensational when winning the Classic for us at Sunderland in 2018 and for a long way looked like retaining his title when leading at long odds the following year, though take nothing away from Angela Harrison and Jimmy Wright’s Velvet Juliet who came through ever so strongly on the night to pick him up. Sadly we lost Bruno to injury not too long back, this really upset my wife Rita as anybody who knows her will tell you, the welfare of the dogs comes before anything. It was such a bad injury though and the best thing for the dog was to let him go. It devastated us really, Rita particularly. I must take this chance to say that without Rita at my side nothing we’ve achieved could have been possible. There are not many that could have put up with me all this time I must say, she’s still here though and we’re both still going strong, I guess we make a good team.
Many people see you as the saviour of the sport in the North East, why would that be?
I guess this goes back to 1989 really when I was part of the team that purchased Sunderland. I’ve never been involved in the sport for money, it’s simply a passion. We saw an opportunity to do something positive to help the sport and the good dog people in the area and I’m just glad it paid off. We got the track up and running and I’m pleased it became the success it did. We sold the track to Kevin Wilde and I’m often asked if I regret selling at the stage we did since the track was later sold on to William Hill for over £9 million. I’m never one for having any regrets in life. I got involved in the track as I believed it had potential and I’m glad we managed improve its fortunes. That’s it as far as I’m concerned and the same with Newcastle when the track was struggling.
Ian Lavery MP is a good friend and owner with me over the years, I might not always agree with all of his political views but he’s a good man and was a great help in saving Newcastle. That’s what it’s about in this sport. It’s about us all pulling together in the same direction, that’s the only way we can ensure a good future. So no I’ve no regrets over selling Sunderland at the time, I was just pleased to see the track continuing to progress and do well and that goes for all tracks but particularly those in the North East. I did receive an award in 2012 for ‘Services to Greyhound Racing’. I’m never after praise but I must say, if it came down to selling Sunderland for a huge profit or gaining the thanks of those involved in the sport, I’m pleased it turned out the way it did.
Away from the sport Harry how are things with you in business, I know you’ve always been a hard worker throughout life?
I’ve recently sold my Winning Lines cosmetic business so that’s me retired now, I guess some would say it’s time to sit back, relax and put your feet up. That wouldn’t be for myself and Rita though. We’re greyhounds through and through, we’ve got 4 race dogs in at the minute, being Pond Natalya, Pond Ricardo, Pond Adonis and Twins Azzaro a nice young dog from Ireland who we think will make into a really nice dog once stepped up in trip. We’ve also got eight retired greyhounds in who keep us both busy. So I’m not done in the sport just yet, we might not be as actively involved as we once were but I’d hope we’ve a visit or two left to the winner’s podium left in us yet. We’re both fit and well so those younger lot should keep one eye looking over their shoulders.
