Thank you for the feedback to the last editorial on the seeding of runners in racing. In my view, it is a greatly underestimated factor in clean racing, both as a spectacle and as a welfare issue. In my view, seeding is a ‘given’, this feature is primarily about poor utilisation of such a valuable tool.
I have never subscribed to the theory that seeding ‘makes false champions’. Put Ice On Fire in trap one, next to a hound who can at least trap on terms but will bore inwards on the first stride, and even the best can be nobbled before they start. Worse still, put a dog who can’t run a tight bend in red, and just hope nobody ends up with a broken leg at the first bend.
Graham Holland is one of the best readers of a race I have come across. Read his race previews and his attention to detail on the running style of not only his own, but a large percentage of those greyhounds that he will be competing against, is a lesson in how much can be learned by astute observation.
Enough of me, here is a selection of responses
Ed
I was interested to read the thoughts and suggestions set about in your latest editorial piece.
Seeding has for many years been a major bone of contention both to myself and many others in the sport. It obviously affects graded racing but it is in open racing that we see the most contentious issues.
How many times when entering greyhounds for opens have I been questioned as to the seed I’m requesting?
Very few.
Now I would like to think that even if I were questioned about seeding, it wouldn’t be an issue and I could reasonably back up my opinion.
As a kennel we always try and seed our greyhounds sensibly and with the best interests of the welfare of both our own and other kennels greyhounds as the paramount concern.
I’ve got to say though that barely a week goes by where we don’t see some hugely questionable seedings.
You’re then left questioning how and why they’ve slipped through the net.
I’m not talking about borderline calls here either, I’m talking about the blatant calls, decisions that everybody can see are incorrect.
First up, why aren’t trainers seeing that what they’re doing is wrong? Surely they’re watching the races?
If it is that they’ve decided to seed rails for instance, but in the hope that they get the trap three draw that they believe their greyhound needs?
Why, at this point, isn’t the seeding challenged by the racing offices? Some maybe challenged, but far too many slip through the net for us to ignore this any longer. I understand that racing office teams are extremely busy. Who isn’t in this industry?
However, when welfare is concerned we cannot afford to not find that extra five minutes that could well ensure that a greyhound receives its true seeding.
When a greyhound whose card is riddled with ‘middle’ comments, is entered for an open race, at a new track without a trial, but the trainer requests ‘rails’ surely it be questioned?
Given, the number of race videos now readily available, how long would it take to decide whether that seeding is justified or not?
No more than five minutes, surely? And how many dogs would it apply to for any given meeting? A handful at most.
This IS NOT an attack on racing offices. The buck should stop with the trainer. You should know your greyhound and you should seed it correctly from both your own point of view and that of the other participants.
One way in which I believe we can aid racing offices is by amending the seeding set up.
I, personally, would remove the current middle seeding and would implement ‘rails to middle’ and also ‘middle to wide’.
Racing office teams should feel much more confident in refusing a rails seeding if they have two different options in the middle of the track rather than the current one.
A quick call back would basically say: ‘we’ve reviewed some video footage and we’re not convinced that your greyhound is a tight railer, you will have to accept rails to middle if you wish to proceed with your entry. Or trial it and prove your point’
I realise that some people already have the powers to be stricter in their enforcement.
The problem is, many greyhounds though are not ‘out and out’ middle runners, yet they aren’t railers either. Let’s just make lives a little easier for everybody.
Welfare has never been as important to this industry, and every one of us has a duty to do our part, in whichever role we find ourselves in.
I am at a loss to understand why implementing the suggested seeding set up is proving so difficult to achieve.
As trainers, we’re often faced with requests to make alterations to our kennels, our vehicles or even our procedures.
Would tweaking the rules or practices cost time and money? Yes, but not enormous amounts of either but the benefits could be considerable.
Peter Harnden
So many times I’ve seen so called railers run off at the first bend and injure another dog, this was the case with Allowdale Bruno the two dog didn’t take the bend and ran Bruno onto the metal hare rail. Three days later Bruno had to be put to sleep due to his fractures.
Over the years when the traps were changed from curved to straight up, this was the time when no one wanted to be any further out than trap four. So hence why everyone was saying their dogs were railers, when some were middle and wide. You would get an open race with all railers in the six traps.
This increased injuries and should have been noted and traps changed but nothing happened and until Mark Bird came into the sport no- one listened to trainers.
Rita Williams
Safety of our greyhounds is paramount so correct seeding is a very important subject. Seeding in graded racing should be easy as all of the runners would have trials around the track and the racing manager can control which dog goes from which trap.
Open racing is far more complex as it is an open draw with runners that might not have any track knowledge, some tracks state that preference is given to dogs that have trialled at their venue, but this can cause difficulties as some dogs seeing a track for the first time may swing off the first bend but run the track better next time.
A sensible conversation between trainer and racing manager may resolve the seeding but even then they might get it wrong. My experience has been dogs run either rails, middle to rails where they are best drawn in trap 2 or 3, middle or wide.
So how do you seed the middle to rail dog?
If you seed rails you might be drawn inside a tight railer and both dogs will be badly impeded, if you seed middle you might be drawn outside a genuine middle runner with the same disastrous result. I think all trainers have these rails to middle dogs, most seed them rails as there are few wides so a middle seed often ends up in trap 5 or 6. For the sake of clean racing and less chance of injury I would like to see a rails to middle seed introduced.
Ernie Gaskin
The biggest culprit with incorrect seeding is the racing office themselves. We all know that any normal open race is only rubber stamped (approved) by the GBGB after it has been received from the track.
It is unrealistic to think that the GBGB would be able to do an official draw especially for all the Open races which were occurring for a Saturday before the enforced close down. We were lucky to have an Open race greyhound run at Monmore Green.
We purchased her from Ireland but as usual she had a niggle and was off for several months. In her first trial (sprint) which was not her preferred distance being out of Westmead Hawk she ran off wide out the second bend. On that evidence she was deemed to be a wide runner, even though all her races in Ireland were no wider than Trap 4.
We entered her for the Monmore bitches festival as a railer and guess what we got trap 5. Luckily she won. The draw for the final was done that afternoon by the racing office in the grandstand. In the final we got drawn trap 2. She duly obliged. After that, in graded races we were always in either 4/5/6.
But when it came to Open races we always got traps 2/3/4. Who knows best, the racing office, the trainer or the person who picks up all the bills, the owner. In my opinion the owner should have the final say then there’s no comeback if the greyhound gets injured.
As for your comment about wide runners. I can go back 53 years when I went to my first greyhound meeting at the old Perry Barr greyhound stadium at the tender age of 9.
I can recall a man standing behind the traps watching and waiting for the hare to reach the back of the traps before pulling the handle to release the hounds. In those days, trap 6 had the advantage of seeing the hare first but to its detriment it had further to run being a wide runner. Whereas trap 1 would see the hare last but would be running the shortest distance being on the rails.
Today though, the hare is some 8/10 meters in front of the traps before they are opened. So any advantage for traps 5 and 6 at the traps have now disappeared especially since they are still running furthers a wide runner. Could this be the reason why owners and trainers request their hounds to be seeded rails or middle. As we all know, this is the reason for middle runners to be running from traps 5 or 6.
As a result of animal welfare, it is impossible to have an open race without some form of seeding. Why not remove the middle tag and just have rails and wides. Another consideration is to have trap 4 vacant leaving a five greyhound race. The only problem with that idea is that the sponsors and bookmakers would not approve.
Peter Roe
I’d been reading your book about Nick Savva. It’s brilliant! I’ve never read a book in my life. Doing it in chapters was a good idea. Kept me interested.
I’ve always felt if you are going to say you don’t like the way things are, you should offer up an alternative. So here goes. NB. No 2. I’m on very dodgy ground, defo no expert so what I’m asking for might not be practical, doable or even achievable.
1. All open race trap draws for Cat 1 & Cat2 comps should be streamed live on line. Takes away any & all conspiracy theories. Use the technology available. The sport needs to make much far better use of social media & the associated platforms. Embrace change!
2. Uniformed track preparation across all tracks. I don’t understand how so many tracks can produce so many varying underfoot conditions that then all run so differently. Some are -70 while others are +40 or in some cases +50 all on the same day together with the same weather conditions. Some tracks run better inside & others outside. Why is this? Do going allowances really change from race to race? I doubt it. Perhaps going allowances are there to aid or suit RM’s? How can a pre-race meeting solo trial going allowance be so different to an actual race allowance 15 mins later? How can a track going allowance change from one race to the next? If it’s a case of water, then water after every race. Track preparation is also paramount when it comes to injuries & welfare. All owners or anyone for that matter want are safe tracks that run fairly. An even playing field is the favourite term I believe. Maybe I’m barking up the wrong tree here Floyd but I can’t help feeling some tracks could do more.
3. I feel some trainers currently abuse the way they seed their dogs which is why at one point the Irish scrapped seeding all together. Truth is we all know there are not enough wide runners. Consequently, dogs that are really middle runners are seeded rails because they don’t want traps 5 or 6. Point in fact is our own Newinn Jacko who was seeded middle & got 6 at Monmore during Puppy Derby twice & despite this still won the competition. He really wants 3 or 4. Look at his card. Ernie says he’s a middle runner. If Ernie says he’s middle, he’s middle! He was drawn correctly in the final & won. Seeding dogs incorrectly is not only only wrong, it’s dangerous. Too many dogs run from the inside & move off. The only people this helps are the bookmakers & the anti’s. Everyone wants clean & safe racing & fewer injuries. I know that’s all stating the obvious so why are there so many dogs running from the wrong boxes? My thoughts to help achieve this is to consider the introduction of an additional seeding. How about seeding dogs as follows? Rails. Rails to middle. Middle. Wide. Would that help?
4. All dogs being entered for open races must have trialed or raced at the track before being accepted. All Cat 1 comps dog must trial at track or have run in trial stake before comp starts No exceptions. RM’s must be able to see the dogs at their track so as to be able to re-seed if & when necessary. See point 3.
5. RM’s need to be firmer and study open racing videos more often so that if trainers seed their dogs trying to seek an advantage the RM will be able to re-seed them. The RM should be seen as a friend to welfare, the dogs & their owners rather than the enemy. The common goal for all has to be cleaner safer racing with fewer injuries. I firmly believe RM‘s could almost place dogs in the right boxes to ensure clean racing. They seem to be able to do the opposite when in comes to graded racing.
6. The minimum 1st place prize money for an open race should be £350.00 across the board. No exceptions.
7. Track records should be accepted on slow tracks as well as fast. Why does a track record stand on +60 & not on -20/-30 etc? Not fair on the dog, the trainer or the owner. Point of reference. Roman Empire. Reference to recent runs at Monmore & Sheffield. (Sheffield pulling plug on final of Queen Mother was a disgrace)
8. a) All tracks to have track staff on every bend to stop & catch injured dogs. The people on the bends also need to try harder to stop the dog rather than just standing there watching! No point in sticking someone there who is not fully mobile. The quicker you stop the dog the better. No exceptions.
8. b) All tracks to have clocks in the middle of the tracks that people can see the same as all the Irish tracks together with split times to the winning line & the third bend.
Lastly, public perception of our sport is vital for its future. We all need to do our bit.
PS Think Mark Bird is doing a good job
Paul Carpenter
Thank you so much for all the feedback on SAVVA.
I am conscious of not wanting to serve up ‘old stuff’, but the chance to tell so many more people about the great man was an honour and a privilege. I must have had half a dozen letters on the theme of ‘I wouldn’t dream of reading a book, but loved reading it a piece at a time.’
I also received the following which is self explanatory. The reference John makes at the end relates to the 1972 St.Leger Final where Westmead County was favourite.
I also had an email from Julian Thewlis in relation to the English Derby feature.
It seems John is the proud owner of Pauls Fun’s English Derby winning presentation coat. The story is the dog was owned by Julian’s uncle, Mr T Watford, seen on the right in this photo.
It is well documented that Pauls Fun was later trained by the great Joe Booth to win a string of major events including the Yarmouth Derby.
According to Peter Harnden, whose father Don (the Long Eaton promoter) knew Joe well, Pauls Fun spent a lot more time in Booth’s kennel than history records. . . .
I don’t do TV reviews but for anyone who hasn’t seen Tiger King on Netflix, it is well worth a watch.
If you haven’t seen it, it is about animal exploitation – a theme that will ring bells with greyhound folk, particularly the American doggie crowd since PETA, who helped finance the campaign to end greyhound racing in Florida, were also involved to the ban of selling of big cats in the same state.
Don’t get me wrong – this whole programme is entirely about exploitation, of animals and also of people. It is wall-to-wall scumbags. The most credible character is probably the Cuban drug dealer on whom the main character in Scarface was based – remember the ‘chainsaw scene’?
But this is reality documentary where you don’t want to be on anyone’s side, not least Carole Baskin, the woman who set out breeding and selling exotic big cats but found there was more money in setting up a sanctuary to save those poor wild animals who had been indiscriminately bred (to make money).
She had a multimillionaire husband who suddenly disappeared (mincer or tiger snack?) and Carole continued to rake in the dollars. Meantime, Carol allows an army of volunteers to work for her for free – they get to wear a coloured T-shirt – as she rakes it in from her multi million dollar business.
(Our gullible idiots don’t even get a t-shirt as they stand outside dog tracks with banners, while our ‘Carole Baskins’, sit monitoring their ‘donate’ buttons)
There is sexual abuse, intimidation, arson, attempted murder . . .
Sounds like a great night in?
I didn’t intend to keep raising the subject of our readership, but day by day, I find it incredible.
This is how it looks this morning. Remember these are ‘unique’ monthly users, so you are only registered once per month no matter how many times to visit the site.
